Autor Wątek:  Own developments, suggestions, ideas  (Przeczytany 7587 razy)

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Offline TZs

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Own developments, suggestions, ideas
« dnia: 23 Marca 2015, 22:21:15 »
Hello, Witam!

They'll be here my developments, corrections, questions, ideas, suggestions in theme of Polish railways.

  Dodano: 23 Marca 2015, 22:46:22
First theme.

Editing sounds.

I observed, in the Maszyna's recurrected sound samples take place in one direction (example: converters, electric motor noises, runningnoises, etc.).
I have a trick: copy the full "mid" sample, and paste behind. Make a reversal on the second sample, then merge the two sample. Many sample sound the same backwards as forward (except for example: a Hasler sample).
This technic's second benefit, a really short sample too will double in length.
I've created an example.
Type 303E-s "przetw3" mid sample was a deeper tone noise at the joint/replay point.
I remerged the start/mid samples, from mid delete around the fist 2 seconds (where was the deep tone error), reversed it, and start-mid samples I cut, that the splice point should be on 0 dB (so there is no popping noise).

Tried filtering a white noise/crepitation from the end sample, unavailingly... So, just use a short fade out, and after deleted the end crepitation.

Here are the re-edited example samples, try it, enjoy!



Accidentally, sample of "start" exported on 44kHz. Audacity add a terrible white noise to any unsigned 8bit exported sample, therefore should resampling from 16bit to 8 bit in Goldwave. And a little bit that stuff strange for me.

I'm so sorry! Here is the 22kHz reduced sample.
« Ostatnia zmiana: 24 Marca 2015, 23:07:41 wysłana przez Tézsé (HUN) »

Offline joey

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Odp: Own developments, suggestions, ideas
« Odpowiedź #1 dnia: 25 Marca 2015, 01:18:14 »
Hello.

As for editing sounds your looping trick may fail if the audio was cut in a wrong place (zero crossing can be wrong place too) before copying and reversing. There may still be clicks or pops although not as severe as when looping an edit done entirely wrong.

There's another looping method, more clean in my opinion. The longer the source sound the better as this method halves the original length. In Audacity (I see you mentioned Audacity) import the source audio and split it precisely1 in half ('split1.png' attachment). Cut the latter half and paste it as a new track ('split2.png' attachment). When you have two tracks apply the 'Cros Fade In' effect on the first track (first half) and 'Cross Fade Out' effect on the second track (latter half) ('crossfade.png' attachment). Play it looped (Shift+Space, or press Shift and click on the play button) to check if the loop sounds good. If it does, merge the tracks into single one (select all (Ctrl+A) then Tracks > Mix and Render)2. It's good idea to save a full quality backup copy at this point to avoid doing things over again in case the sound proves unsatisfactory (too loud/quiet etc). If the sampling rate of the source file was more than 22050Hz, change the project rate in the bottom-left corner of the window to 22050Hz, then resample (Tracks > Resample) to 22050Hz. When exporting, choose 'Other uncompressed files' and in options choose 'WAV (Microsoft)' header and 'Unsigned 8-bit PCM' encoding.

As for the noise you experience when exporting from Audacity, my guess it that you have not disabled dither. 8-bit resolution is so low, that you might want to disable dither (Edit > Preferences > Quality > High-quality Conversion > Dither, set to 'None'). Make sure Sample Rate Converter is set to 'Best Quality (Slowest) for best quality. ;)

It's best to avoid messing with sounds in 22050Hz/8-bit format as further modifications (especially loudness changes) can reduce quality of the sound.

1 Splitting audio precisely in half might be tricky. Choose 'hh:mm:ss + samples' display format from a menu in 'Selection Start' box at the bottom of the window. Then Select all the audio and check its length. Treat the samples count as a remainder. The samples count should be divisible by 2 for precise splitting, if it's not, remove final sample of the file.

2 It's good to have default sample format set to 32-bit float in quality settings. Mixing of crossfaded tracks can lead to overdrive (samples exceed the maximum value) if the source was too loud and in consequence lead to audible distortion. If that's the case use 'Amplify' effect and apply negative amplification so that the peak value in no larger than 0dBFS. This only works with 32-bit float sample format.
« Ostatnia zmiana: 25 Marca 2015, 22:11:42 wysłana przez joey »

Offline TZs

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Odp: Own developments, suggestions, ideas
« Odpowiedź #2 dnia: 25 Marca 2015, 20:33:17 »
Hello!

Many-many thanks, that was my fault, a few days ago I switched through the dither to enabled! Now correct, thank You!

You hear click, when playing mid sample as continued? Or in start-mid transition?
Unfortunately, from start to mid transition correct usually from 7 to 2 times in simulator. In sound editor, transition was faultless, countless test occasion.
My theory, maybe the problem, simulator's sound engine "memorize", where "stopped" was a sample. And in recall, the sample continued from this memorized point, never from the beginning of the sample. Of course, this is just a theory, be my fault too.
I try to work better and better.

This technique very interesting, and a good one! Already made some attempt.

However, many case frequent problem, sample is too short to repeat, like too long. Principally than cog wheel gear/traction motor noise. Often the usable session less than 3-4 sec.

Thanks again for your help in Audacity, and this new method!

Offline joey

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Odp: Own developments, suggestions, ideas
« Odpowiedź #3 dnia: 25 Marca 2015, 22:40:25 »
As for the clicks I mentioned in my post I meant that sometimes a loop done with your method (copy and reverse) might not work well, I did not mean your files.

In Maszyna there's some kind of bug that sometimes causes a short pause between the sounds that were meant to be played in sequence (horns, engines etc).

I think that the most important transitions are start-to-mid, mid looped (these two are kinda obvious) and start-to-end (in case the user releases the key immediately) and these have to be seamless. Mid-to-end doesn't matter that much because we cannot control when the user will release the key or turn the engine or something off as the mid sound will be cut off immediately and the end sound will play. This may lead to clicks but I guess it can't be helped.
« Ostatnia zmiana: 25 Marca 2015, 22:41:28 wysłana przez joey »

Offline TZs

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Odp: Own developments, suggestions, ideas
« Odpowiedź #4 dnia: 25 Marca 2015, 22:58:56 »
Yes, yes, but now listen on high volume the sample, and make click every 12 sec. And it's funny, because, the reversed sample's _half length_ longer, than 23sec.
And in editor it's inaudible.
I don't understand.
Try make this something.

Offline joey

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Odp: Own developments, suggestions, ideas
« Odpowiedź #5 dnia: 26 Marca 2015, 00:53:15 »
I ran the sim a few times with '4e-ep-tv' model as it uses the '07]przetw_3-*' sounds, switching the converter on and off but I did not hear any clicks you mentioned; the middle sound looped nicely. This might be OS or hardware releated.

Offline TZs

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Odp: Own developments, suggestions, ideas
« Odpowiedź #6 dnia: 28 Marca 2015, 15:22:34 »
Witam!

Uploaded a pack for EU07, type 4E-s sound modification.
It is currently in the testing phase, so I need suggestions, criticisms. Specially: volume ratios, (converter, hasler, runningnoise), and tone reality ("too sharp" or too "soft") hasler, traction motor sounds, because never heard the sound of an IRL EU07.

Converter "re tone" to reference used this film:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7jusPvlaVM

Traction motor sound source from Mechatronik's film:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cHvNR646rU

And many other.
I did not ask special permission from everyone, I hope they don't resent reason (otherwise each sample was very strongly, heavily edited).

  Dodano: 04 Kwietnia 2015, 15:58:01
Witam!

I have a question for developers.
LoD theme.
What is better for the program engine?
3 nodes (submodels)+1 texture - 3 drawcalls, wich first node: body high (till 120-150m), second: chassis high (80-100m), third: small elements (40-50m).
Or: submodel high (about 120-180m - but 1 drawcall), and after that a completely new "mid" submodel.
« Ostatnia zmiana: 04 Kwietnia 2015, 15:58:01 wysłana przez Tézsé (HUN) »

Offline Stele

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Odp: Own developments, suggestions, ideas
« Odpowiedź #7 dnia: 04 Kwietnia 2015, 16:26:31 »
Nobody truely knows as noone ever made proper tests of our drawing engine.
Loco have tens of submodels forced by animations so diference should be minimal anyways. Personaly I'd go with first method.
Mój kanał youtube

Offline TZs

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Odp: Own developments, suggestions, ideas
« Odpowiedź #8 dnia: 04 Kwietnia 2015, 18:42:36 »
Thanks for Your answer.
Understood. I think, will combine that two method.

  Dodano: 10 Kwietnia 2015, 20:47:09
Witam.

I found an oddity in LOD operation.
Exported a second level model only, add distances: min.: 50, max.: 200. But it visible around after 80m (I calculated from visible coal freights), +a locomotive length.
Highest model added 0-20 (meter?), that visible more than 30m, maybe 40 too. Interesting. Is that perhabs somewhat automatically?

And an interesting. I tested the engine tolerance. On 12 tracks 2400 car (over 200 pieces in one train the program crashed).
With LOD versions from 60FPS can hold between 58-48.
Thereafter started the scene without LOD models, ~13 000 triangles with couplers, pneumatics, etc. Circa 13 drawcall/car.
At 99% GPU loading draw 8FPS, few seconds after began operating the visibility reduction, and make 19-20FPS.
So, it's amazing, on the screen was more than 24 million triangles, and minimum 7 000, perhabs more than 31 000 drawcalls (a few seconds). The engine can be CPU cores and GPU too able to take full advantage.
« Ostatnia zmiana: 10 Kwietnia 2015, 20:50:02 wysłana przez Tézsé (HUN) »

Offline joey

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Odp: Own developments, suggestions, ideas
« Odpowiedź #9 dnia: 10 Kwietnia 2015, 21:50:41 »
I found an oddity in LOD operation.
Exported a second level model only, add distances: min.: 50, max.: 200. But it visible around after 80m (I calculated from visible coal freights), +a locomotive length.
Highest model added 0-20 (meter?), that visible more than 30m, maybe 40 too. Interesting. Is that perhabs somewhat automatically?
There was a modification in the Maszyna executable recently that further calculates min- and maxdistance depending on screen resolution. The original min- and maxdistance values are kept intact for 768px vertical according to http://rainsted.com/pl/Symulator/MaSzyna/EU07.EXE_435#Przeliczanie_odleg.C5.82o.C5.9Bci_LoD (Polish language only, sorry).

Offline TZs

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Odp: Own developments, suggestions, ideas
« Odpowiedź #10 dnia: 10 Kwietnia 2015, 22:17:39 »
Really?

That good, I'm happy, much prefer this method, same was in Trainz 2004. This method is much much better, than distance LOD.
No problem, translator help me, around half explanation understandable.
So: screen height to 768, multisampling off.

Thank You, all the best!

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« Odpowiedź #11 dnia: 24 Kwietnia 2015, 19:57:11 »

Offline TZs

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some happenings
« Odpowiedź #12 dnia: 01 Maja 2015, 22:39:28 »
Hello!
I am pleased to announce, the "old trio" reunited! Mrcell, and Tade back to Maszyna. We'd like Our future work it could be part of the official Maszyna releases. The old and sank maszyna.mrtcsapat.hu remains with accindentally visitors.

I would like to ask permission to use, and translate the Maszyna standards, because our, and others works, as much as possible to meet the requirements.

Thanks in advance.

Offline TZs

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Pokeys question.
« Odpowiedź #13 dnia: 16 Maja 2015, 12:54:39 »
Hello, witam!

My friend and co-worker have a question to has pulpit.
Rainsted wiki said: "43A   wyjście/wejście A/C   Prędkościomierz (calibrateout 6)" - output-input A/C.
He wants to operate a traction motor voltage indicator from PIN20, PWM3,; and a tachometer indicator from PIN21, PWM2.
And to his questions, that's possible?


Offline TZs

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Bonanza V2
« Odpowiedź #14 dnia: 18 Sierpnia 2015, 17:11:51 »
Hello.

I saw the render images from "Bonanza" coaches on the Polish Forum: brake equipments under chassis, new bogie. Those beautiful, and very detailed.
And I feel, much more detailed than the previous trend. So, my question: this will be the future of the Simulator detail norm?
Unfortunately, I don't know, what's the plans, goals in detailing for the distant future of the Simulator.

I think, I feel, I stuck ten years ago in the level of detail.:-)

Is there perhaps a polygon-general norm in different vehicles?
For example:
Locos: 100.000 triangles;
cars: 30.000;
coaches: 30.000-35.000? Or ~50 000 is okay?

Offline Młody_fan_kolei

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Odp: Own developments, suggestions, ideas
« Odpowiedź #15 dnia: 20 Sierpnia 2015, 19:44:50 »
Greetings.
Yes TZs, as far as I know what You saw is a new, updated standard of coaches. It begun, if I remember correctly with the introduction of the new model of REGIOexpress :161a/162a/163a. The link to  download them can be found here : http://eu07.pl/forum/index.php/topic,27079.msg406439.html#msg406439
« Ostatnia zmiana: 20 Sierpnia 2015, 19:46:14 wysłana przez Młody_fan_kolei »

 

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